#387 Structured Water and Rethinking Beliefs on Water with Tom Cowan

This week on The Less Stressed Life Podcast, I’m diving into a fascinating and eye-opening conversation with Dr. Tom Cowan about structured water—a topic that challenges everything we thought we knew about hydration, biology, and even health itself.

Dr. Cowan, a disruptor in the health space and author of Cancer and the New Biology of Water, joins me to explain why not all water is created equal and how structured water plays a crucial role in our cells, energy, and even disease prevention. We also explore how hydration is about quality, not just quantity, and why electromagnetic fields (EMFs), stress, and toxins may be impacting our body’s ability to stay optimally hydrated.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• What is structured water?  
• How cancer and hydration are connected
• The role of sunlight, grounding, and minerals 
• What destroys structured water?
• Do water structuring devices actually work? 
• Fear and stress as hidden disruptors of cellular hydration

ABOUT GUEST:
Dr. Thomas Cowan is a well-known alternative medicine doctor, author and speaker, with a common-sense, holistic approach to health and wellness. He has given countless lectures and workshops throughout the U.S. on a variety of subjects in health and medicine, and is the author of six best-selling books, including "The Contagion Myth” co-authored by Sally Fallon Morell, “Cancer and the New Biology of Water,” "Human Heart, Cosmic Heart,” “Vaccines, Autoimmunity and the Changing Nature of Childhood Illness,” “The Nourishing Traditions Book of Baby and Child Care” co-authored by Sally Fallon Morell, and “The Fourfold Path to Healing” (with Sally Fallon and Jaimen McMillan).

WHERE TO FIND:
Website: https://drtomcowan.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talkinturkeywithtom/

WHERE TO FIND CHRISTA:
Website: https://www.christabiegler.com/
Instagram: @anti.inflammatory.nutritionist
Podcast Instagram: @lessstressedlife
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lessstressedlife
Leave a review, submit a questions for the podcast or take one of my quizzes here: https://www.christabiegler.com/links

NUTRITION PHILOSOPHY:

• Over restriction is dead; if your practitioner is recommending this, they are stuck in 2010 and not evolving
• Whole food is soul food and fed is best
• Sustainable, synergistic nutrition is in (the opposite of whack-a-mole supplementation & supplement graveyards)
• You don’t have to figure it out alone
• Do your best and leave the rest

SPONSOR:  
Thanks to Jigsaw Health for sponsoring this episode! Try their MagSoothe or MagSRT for better sleep and less stress. Use code LESSSTRESSED10 at JigsawHealth.com for 10% off—unlimited use!

Transcript

[00:00:00] Tom Cowan: there is no metastasis. There's just a new storage place. because the original place got full. Once that happens and you put garbage , in the tissue, it can't structure the water. There's no charge. Now you have dead, disorganized, stinky, nasty tissue, otherwise known as cancer.

[00:00:22] Christa Biegler, RD: I'm your host, Christa Biegler, and I'm going to guess we have at least one thing in common that we're both in pursuit of a less stressed life. On this show, I'll be interviewing experts and sharing clinical pearls from my years of practice to support high performing health savvy women in pursuit of abundance and a less stressed life.

[00:00:52] Christa Biegler, RD: One of my beliefs is that we always have options for getting the results we want. So let's see what's out there together.

[00:01:10] Christa Biegler, RD: All right, today on the Less Stressed Life podcast, I am joined once again by Tom Cowan. I don't know if he likes me saying this, previously a generally, general practicing medical doctor and the author of at least six books, he can correct me if there's more now, one of which we've talked about before on the pod. cast called Heart, Cosmic Heart. I believe the podcast episode was the same name. And this is actually a little bit of a disruptive episode that gained, which I think I don't know Tom, but maybe he has been called a disruptor in the health space, right? Just someone who, brings new thoughts and questions to the space.

[00:01:43] Christa Biegler, RD: And so it was a bit of a disruptive episode. That not in a bad way, but like a, Oh, this disrupts my thought patterns that I have, or the things that I've generally believed to be true. And that gained a lot of really interesting attention on our YouTube channel. And so it was just kind of intriguing, funny, overall neutral.

[00:02:01] Christa Biegler, RD: So today we're back to talk a little bit about Tom's other book or another topic that he has written about. The book is called Cancer and the New Biology of Water. And today we're talking a little bit about. Water and structured water and how Tom arrived at some of these thoughts. And so we're looking for him.

[00:02:19] Christa Biegler, RD: We actually had one other structured water episode. I did not feel that it made sense to people. And so I'm looking forward to kind of making more sense of structured water with Tom today. So welcome to the show. 

[00:02:34] Tom Cowan: Okay, 

[00:02:35] Christa Biegler, RD: here we go. 

[00:02:35] Christa Biegler, RD: All 

[00:02:37] Christa Biegler, RD: right, cool. Structured water is part of what. Your book, when did this book, Cancer and the New Biology of Water, come out?

[00:02:45] Tom Cowan: 97, 98, something. 

[00:02:47] Christa Biegler, RD: Oh my gosh. No, no, 

[00:02:48] Tom Cowan: no, no, no, no. 17 18, 2017 or 18. 

[00:02:53] Christa Biegler, RD: Just like 20 years difference, no big deal. 2017, 2018. What was the reason that you wrote this book?

[00:03:01] Tom Cowan: The same reason I write all the books is because the normal way that I had learned and the normal way that biology and medical doctors have come to understand a various issue turns out to be incorrect.

[00:03:20] Tom Cowan: And so I thought I would do my best to set the record straight. 

[00:03:24] Christa Biegler, RD: When did you first learn about structured water, would you say? 

[00:03:29] Tom Cowan: I met Jerry Pollack. Probably 12 to 15 years ago. So that's when I first heard about I had thoughts about it before that based on my own observations, but there was no like formal concept that I knew about until I met. Jerry Pollock. 

[00:03:50] Christa Biegler, RD: Mm. Okay. So will you share with us in as simple terms as possible, how can we define structured water from regular water?

[00:04:00] Christa Biegler, RD: Some people, I mean, this is a topic people do not agree about, right? That they're like, hey, it's just like regular water. I've heard variable arguments about it. And I have a few thoughts based on my own experimentation with structured water. And so that's where some of our questions will come from today.

[00:04:16] Christa Biegler, RD: But tell us in general, how to define structured water and what are some other names for it? Maybe exclude? Is it Jerry Pollack, who also calls it exclusion zone water as well? 

[00:04:29] Tom Cowan: Yeah, I mean, you could say there's disagreement about it, but not of anybody who actually thinks because it's obvious. And it's, it's just the reason there's disagreement about it is because people have not, don't understand what you're talking about.

[00:04:49] Tom Cowan: So it's, it's very simple. We are told in, you know, early education, Or better put early indoctrination that there's three phases of matter, right? Solid liquid and gas. So if you take copper, there's. solid copper, there's molten or liquid copper, and then there's gaseous copper. And that's with salt. I mean, I don't know that salt actually has a liquid phase, but every substance allegedly has those three phases, right?

[00:05:26] Tom Cowan: That's what we taught. 

[00:05:28] Christa Biegler, RD: Yes. 

[00:05:28] Tom Cowan: So, so does water. Water has, there's ice, that's a solid, water, liquid, that's the liquid, and then steam, that's gas. Right? So, what is jello, 97 percent water? Which phase is it? 

[00:05:49] Christa Biegler, RD: Jello. Gel. I 

[00:05:52] Tom Cowan: mean, if that what we learned was true, , you'd have to choose one of those, a multiple choice question. 

[00:06:00] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, solid, I guess, but it's not quite solid at all. It's 

[00:06:02] Tom Cowan: not solid. It doesn't have any of the physical attributes of ice, which is the solid phase. So if you want to argue that there's a dispute over whether there is a fourth phase of water, then you need to come up with an explanation of what jello is.

[00:06:25] Tom Cowan: Because there isn't one. It is a different gel, like different, or, you know, the bond angles are different. The, the x ray crystallography is different. Everything about it is different than either liquid water or ice or certainly steam. So the fact that there is a. fourth phase of water, and then you could call it structured, coherent, exclusion zone, or whatever you want.

[00:06:54] Tom Cowan: But there is a fourth phase of water period. If you don't agree with that, then I wouldn't listen to anything, the rest of this, because you're in make believe land and it doesn't, then facts don't mean anything to you. And which that's fine, but it doesn't help. So the reason I first started thinking of this, you know, I was an ER doctor for a while and it's, insofar as we were told anything about water in medical education, we were told that our cells are.

[00:07:30] Tom Cowan: You know, made of water and, you know, 90 percent of the volume is water or more 99 percent of the molecules in our body are water. And so, essentially, we're bags of water with structure, right? And stuff like proteins and minerals. Now, the first thing about that is it doesn't feel like that. Right? It doesn't feel like you're sloshing around or if you poke it that it feels like any bag of water that I've ever felt. 

[00:08:02] Christa Biegler, RD: Right. 

[00:08:03] Tom Cowan: But, but I've had the experience of seeing people bayoneted and shot and all kinds of stuff in the ER. And you know how many people squirted out water from their body? None. So where's the water? There isn't any. What happens if you bayonet Jell O? 

[00:08:27] Christa Biegler, RD: It does not squirt water. 

[00:08:28] Tom Cowan: Right. Nothing. You get a hole in the Jell O.

[00:08:32] Tom Cowan: And so it turns out that all of the water inside the cells is in this Jell O like fourth phase. That's the only thing that makes any sense. Because otherwise it would be liquid floating around, in which case the entire biochemistry is incorrect. Right? They say that we, our cells are membrane bound bags of water.

[00:09:02] Tom Cowan: Now, the next thing that I investigated was, and this was with the help of a guy named Gilbert Ling. So one of the crowning achievements in biology and medicine in the 20th century was The elucidation of membrane bound pumps. And receptors, opiate receptors, serotonin receptors, and the granddaddy and the crowning achievement of that was the sodium potassium pump.

[00:09:33] Tom Cowan: It is one of the most important discoveries in medical science in the 20th century, Nobel prizes, the whole bit. They've got it down to the, so there is a membrane bound it's in the membrane and it's kind of a whirly gig. So it binds to the. Potassium on the outside and the sodium on the inside spins around and deposits the potassium on the inside, the sodium on the outside.

[00:10:03] Tom Cowan: That's why you have an unequal distribution of sodium and potassium. And that gives the cell a charge, which, which means it's electrified, which is why you see an EEG or an EKG or an EMG. That's the origin of the electrical charge in a living system. This difference in the ionic potential, right? 

[00:10:27] Christa Biegler, RD: Yes. 

[00:10:27] Tom Cowan: This is 

[00:10:28] Tom Cowan: very important. There's drugs that work on the sodium potassium pump, et cetera. So I went looking for a picture of it, right? I mean, if you, if you tell me there's cats in the world, I would say, let me see a picture unless you could show me a real cat.

[00:10:47] Tom Cowan: If you say, I can't show you a real cat and there's no photographs of cats. I start worrying that maybe you made that up, right? 

[00:10:59] Christa Biegler, RD: For sure 

[00:10:59] Tom Cowan: I can you know, you can draw a picture of it and you say this looks like a cat But if you then I would say how do you know it looks like a cat if you've never seen a cat?

[00:11:09] Tom Cowan: and they might have a reason like That's what their Aunt Hilda said or something. It doesn't mean it's true. So if you go looking through for an electron microscope picture of any sodium potassium pump or any membrane bound receptor, doesn't exist. No matter how much resolution, even though the size of the pump is supposedly able to be resolved in an electron microscope image.

[00:11:45] Tom Cowan: But there's no pump. There's no whirly gig. There's no pump. Okay, well, they say what the way they stain it and freeze it and the dyes. Maybe that's like dissolves the pump. Fine. Okay, so the next thing that I ran across this was from Gilbert Ling. He did something. Which is obvious, which is, so what is the, membrane around Jell O? 

[00:12:17] Christa Biegler, RD: I'm not sure. 

[00:12:18] Tom Cowan: Right, nothing. There is no membrane around Jell O, right? 

[00:12:23] Christa Biegler, RD: Mm hmm. 

[00:12:24] Tom Cowan: It just kind of ends where the Jell O ends. 

[00:12:27] Christa Biegler, RD: Mm hmm. 

[00:12:27] Tom Cowan: There's no, like, you could put a special coating on it, if you wanted to make a fancy Jell O, but that's not part of the Jell O, right? 

[00:12:38] Tom Cowan: It doesn't 

[00:12:38] Tom Cowan: really have a membrane or a cell wall, so if the cells are also jello, maybe they don't have a cell wall either or a membrane, which changes everything. 

[00:12:52] Christa Biegler, RD: I know. It actually disrupts a lot of feelings I have, which I'm just going to have to wait to talk through, but I'm like over here, Oh, okay. Got lots of questions about sodium potassium pump, which apparently we have no picture of, so we're not sure if it's real. 

[00:13:05] Tom Cowan: So here's what he did. He took some cells and he peeled off the, the outer layer, right?

[00:13:12] Christa Biegler, RD: Now, 

[00:13:13] Tom Cowan: If that's where the pump is, then that should change the distribution of the sodium potassium. In other words, it should equilibrate like just like, you know, like if you put salt in one side and distilled water and another side of a membrane, it will equilibrate if the salt can move from one compartment to the other until they're equal concentration, right? 

[00:13:40] Tom Cowan: That's 

[00:13:40] Tom Cowan: obvious. As long as the salt can move. So if you take the membrane out, then there should be nothing between the liquid cytoplasm and the outside and it should equilibrate. But what the reality is, it is this, it doesn't change the concentrations at all. In other words, he just proved that the distribution of sodium potassium not only has nothing to do with a pump, it has nothing to do with the membrane.

[00:14:16] Tom Cowan: And that's proof, because if you take the membrane off. And it doesn't change the distribution, then the distribution did not come from the stuff you took off. Unless you have some other way of doing logic, which I don't know about. If you say that the reason, you know, a cat can jump is because of a trampoline, and you take the trampoline away and the cat jumps the same, it's not the trampoline.

[00:14:49] Tom Cowan: That's called actually logic. So, there is no sodium potassium pump, there is no, any membrane bound receptor, in which case, how do you explain, how does one explain the distribution, which, interestingly, is lost in cancer? So, a normal cell is charged, and a cancer cell is like a dead battery.

[00:15:18] Tom Cowan: It loses its ability to maintain a charge. And that charge keeps the cells essentially from clumping together. Right, because they're negatively charged on the outside, then they repel each other. If you lose the charge, because the sodium potassium can't distribute, then you have a dead battery and the tissues all clump together, like you see with, with cancer cells, because the tissue , is dead, because there's no charge.

[00:15:50] Tom Cowan: So why did that happen? Well, then you have to know where that distribution comes from, and it turns out nature is so ingenious that it made the gels inside our tissues just the right size. Imagine like a screen, and it's just the right size to trap potassium and exclude sodium. 

[00:16:16] Christa Biegler, RD: Hmm. 

[00:16:17] Tom Cowan: So. It doesn't, you don't have to add any, any energy or anything.

[00:16:22] Tom Cowan: All you have to do is make the gel and the size of the gel automatically holds onto potassium gets rid of the sodium, thereby creating the charge. Now that led to another discovery. Well, how do you make the gel? Well, you get, you get just the same as you make it a jello. You take proteins, right? Gelatin proteins, you put it in water.

[00:16:52] Tom Cowan: Nothing happens, right? Right, right. You heat it, what happens then? The proteins get unfolded. 

[00:17:02] Christa Biegler, RD: Denatured? 

[00:17:04] Tom Cowan: Well, maybe denatured. Okay, unfolded, 

[00:17:07] Christa Biegler, RD: unfolded. 

[00:17:08] Tom Cowan: And then that allows those unfolded proteins, they go from like this to like this. The water sticks to it because it's open, and then when it cools, it makes jello.

[00:17:21] Tom Cowan: So the same thing happens in us. We have intracellular protein skeleton. It's probably actin, but we don't really know that for sure. And it's unfolded up, and then you put a Bunsen burner in it, and then it unfolds, and then the water sticks to it, and at body temperature, it's a gel. Now, the problem is what I just said, we don't have a Bunsen burner, 

[00:17:46] Christa Biegler, RD: right? 

[00:17:48] Tom Cowan: So there has to be something that plays the role of Bunsen burner. 

[00:17:53] Christa Biegler, RD: That's 

[00:17:54] Tom Cowan: called ATP. Now, people erroneously think that ATP gives you energy. It's the energy currency made, they say made by the mitochondria. In the cristae of the mitochondria where the, you know, electron transport chain is all that's a bunch of hooey.

[00:18:18] Tom Cowan: But you do make this substance which binds to the end of the proteins. And then they unfold like it's like a, it's like a blinds of a drapes, right? You twist the handle and the whole thing goes open. They twist it the other way and the whole thing goes shut. So you bind at a certain binding site. Well, that's assuming there's actually molecules, but it's an energetic thing, really, and that unfolds the proteins, the water sticks to it, allows it to form this gel, the gel hangs on to the potassium, excludes the sodium, you get a charge, and you get a normal function.

[00:19:00] Tom Cowan: If you don't have the ATP, or you don't have the right proteins, Or you've got poisons that are interfering with the gel, right? You got poisons dissolved in your water, so they can't form a proper gel. You don't form the gel, you don't get a charge, and then you're dead. 

[00:19:19] Christa Biegler, RD: I need you to repeat that.

[00:19:21] Christa Biegler, RD: Oh, I need you to repeat that last piece really, because it's like, if we have missing pieces, this won't happen. And before we, before you answer that, I want to back up to something Dr. Paul Anderson said, which was that. Those with cancer are incredibly dehydrated, like that's always the case in cancer that people are dehydrated, and the conversation is that Structured water exclusion zone water, coherent water is found in human, the human body and in nature in abundance.

[00:19:52] Christa Biegler, RD: So feel free to correct me, but it's like a cucumber is full of structured water. All plants are full of structured water. That's 

[00:19:59] Tom Cowan: everything that's living is, is only structured water. 

[00:20:05] Tom Cowan: That's the 

[00:20:05] Tom Cowan: definition of life. 

[00:20:07] Christa Biegler, RD: Yes. So there is hydration. 

[00:20:11] Tom Cowan: Well, because it's so far as so, I mean, the problem with that statement is.

[00:20:18] Tom Cowan: If he's talking about the quantity of water that has nothing to do with it, it's the state of the water. Now, by the way, if you go to your medical doctor or your oncologist and say, you know, I heard this idiot coward on the thing on the teeth, you know, on the podcast. And he says that cancer has to do with a defect in your structured water in your tissues.

[00:20:46] Tom Cowan: What do you think of that? No, you're right. Colin, he's an idiot. He doesn't know anything about cancer's genetic. Got it. By the way, Doc, how, you know, I think I have a tumor. How should we diagnose it? Well, we should do an MRI, right? Because then we'll find out if you have a tumor. So what does an MRI measure, doc?

[00:21:08] Tom Cowan: Well, it measures whether you have a tumor. Yeah, I know that, but like, what is it actually measuring? I don't know. So you go to the radiologist. So you're going to do an MRI on me to see if I have cancer. What is the, what is the MRI actually measuring? I don't know. That's weird, right? So this guy, who's supposedly a cancer doctor, does a test, and he doesn't even know what the test is measuring.

[00:21:40] Tom Cowan: You know what it's measuring? 

[00:21:41] Christa Biegler, RD: I have no idea. 

[00:21:43] Tom Cowan: The quality of the structured water in your tissues. And when it deteriorates, in other words, becomes like a puddle, Or like a hardened irregular form, right, those are the two ways it could dissolve or it could, you know, be misshapen that the MRI picks up a signal saying this isn't right and then it integrates it in the computer to show you an image that's a different color than a normal structured water, and that's how they know it's a tumor.

[00:22:23] Tom Cowan: So the very way that they find the cancer is by assessing the quality of this structure, your water, 

[00:22:33] Tom Cowan: and 

[00:22:33] Tom Cowan: they don't even know it. 

[00:22:36] Christa Biegler, RD: I wonder how they, I wonder how the person who knows what an MRI is actually defines it, like, if we go back, and I feel like you're always He said, 

[00:22:42] Tom Cowan: , I've read his work.

[00:22:44] Tom Cowan: He said, you know, I, I figured out a way to get a signal based on the bond angles and the, and the, the coherence of the water. That's how he did it. 

[00:22:56] Christa Biegler, RD: That was not preserved in the hand me downs of information. I mean, 

[00:23:00] Tom Cowan: they don't know it. Because they're scientifically illiterate. 

[00:23:06] Christa Biegler, RD: Because you don't have to know it.

[00:23:07] Christa Biegler, RD: Okay, so when we talk about is this statement true? If structured water leads to better hydration in the cells? Or it's the only, I mean, it's not really true if all, if all water In living form is structured. This is like something I hear in circles talking about this. Like you have to drink structured water.

[00:23:29] Christa Biegler, RD: Otherwise, you're not getting hydration. Some of the same conversation is made about having minerals in water and actually, I'm really just challenging my beliefs in general about how much water is needed to be consumed on a daily basis because it seems when you're adding minerals to your water, you need to consume much less than if you're not.

[00:23:47] Christa Biegler, RD: Adding minerals to the water. And this is actually blowing open the conversation, the feelings I have about potassium and sodium. So I'm going to share something I see with most people. It's that most people feel more energy and there's a variety of symptoms that improve when they consume more potassium.

[00:24:09] Christa Biegler, RD: And for a long time I've been consuming referring to the sodium potassium pump. And so I'm thinking about 

[00:24:17] Tom Cowan: let 

[00:24:18] Tom Cowan: me stop you there. No. So how do they consume potassium 

[00:24:23] Christa Biegler, RD: through 

[00:24:24] Christa Biegler, RD: food based sources? 

[00:24:26] Tom Cowan: So how do you know that it's the potassium in the food that's making them feel better? 

[00:24:33] Christa Biegler, RD: And not the rest of the foods? 

[00:24:35] Tom Cowan: Yeah. So if somebody comes along and you see, this is the same issue I have. People say, when I eat saturated fat, that's when I had a heart problem. 

[00:24:46] Christa Biegler, RD: But they're missing the rest of the nutrients. 

[00:24:48] Tom Cowan: So 

[00:24:48] Tom Cowan: I asked them, what did the saturated fat taste like? And they say, what do you mean? I said, well, if I eat like a banana.

[00:24:59] Tom Cowan: I can tell you sort more or less. I don't it's hard to describe but what a banana tastes like or a steak or a hot dog or a beet or a banana or an orange. So what is it if you say you ate a Saturated fat. What did it taste? Well, I didn't actually eat a saturated fat. What did you eat? I ate butter. 

[00:25:24] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. 

[00:25:25] Tom Cowan: So what is the percentage allegedly of saturated fat and butter? I don't know. Well, it's about 20 percent something like that. So how do you know if so you're saying you ate butter and you got a heart attack? Is that right? Yeah. So how do you know it wasn't the other 80 percent though? If somebody eats a banana, huh.

[00:25:49] Tom Cowan: And you say, oh, I feel much better and you claim that it's potassium. You don't have a clue that that's right. 

[00:25:57] Christa Biegler, RD: I mean, to your point, when people tell you like saturated fat makes this happen, I automatically think of all these other scenarios of like why they may feel or not feel better. 

[00:26:11] Tom Cowan: It's extremely sloppy way of describing what they ate because they didn't need a saturated fat and nobody eats potassium and even if you go into how do you prove that atoms exist and all that, I can guarantee you wouldn't be able to do that.

[00:26:30] Tom Cowan: So it's a misleading way of looking at the world. 

[00:26:37] Tom Cowan: And by the 

[00:26:37] Tom Cowan: way, there's no guarantee or actually any information that drinking structured water makes the water in you structure. Like, in fact, there's reason to think that's not the way it would be. 

[00:26:55] Christa Biegler, RD: Well, that's probably a pretty important point.

[00:26:57] Christa Biegler, RD: Let's go there next, because that's automatically how our human brains sometimes operate. Like, oh, this thing is good for me, I must take this thing. Before I do that, I want to ask you about the process in making the gel when the protein unfolds. That's what you were talking about. There's no There's no photo of the sodium potassium pump.

[00:27:21] Christa Biegler, RD: Is there evidence of the whole unfolding of the protein to create a structured gel inside of us? Is there, like, lots of proof of this? 

[00:27:35] Tom Cowan: There's not lots of proof. There's some lines of evidence, and it's, it's a good point. It's possible that's not actually the way it works. But it seems to be that that it is a good point.

[00:27:48] Tom Cowan: So what's accurate to say is something happens energetically that allows us to create structured water, and it seems to have something to do with proteins, because if you put it in an experimental system with no proteins. It won't form structured water. And in fact, if you do it in experimental system, you have to add something like ATP to get that to happen.

[00:28:19] Tom Cowan: It's like a catalyst. But that doesn't prove that's what happens in us. So, yes, it is to a certain extent unproven, but it may be possible. Let's say it like that. 

[00:28:31] Christa Biegler, RD: Okay. Well, let's jump to what might be important to talk about next. So you're describing, if I was to sum up structured water in a very much of a micro definition, it's a fourth phase of water.

[00:28:47] Christa Biegler, RD: Perhaps a gel like structure that doesn't require a membrane to be as, as kind of a boundary and it's in all the things. 

[00:28:55] Tom Cowan: It's a certain pH, 

[00:28:56] Tom Cowan: it's negative charge, and it has a bunch of other characteristics which Pollack has. You know, very clearly and carefully elucidated. 

[00:29:09] Christa Biegler, RD: I want to talk about well you just talked about how structured water comes to be.

[00:29:12] Christa Biegler, RD: Different places I have learned things about structured water have said in nature it becomes structured as it goes around and spins around things in nature as water goes, like travels through a stream. Do you have any comments on that? And then I want to talk about how The concept of consuming structured water for a moment.

[00:29:32] Christa Biegler, RD: And how do we validate if structured water can be structured? I mean, I have been given structured water device and when used according to directions, I felt that there was a smoother taste to the water that I use the device on than not, but I've also been given other devices that supposedly structure water.

[00:29:54] Christa Biegler, RD: And I was like, I cannot tell the difference here whatsoever. So. What do you think? 

[00:30:00] Tom Cowan: So there movement of water, particularly in vortexing patterns according to Pollock's experiments, increases the structure of the water. That means it increases the percentage of water that's in this gel phase. the number of layers of it.

[00:30:20] Tom Cowan: And the, the simplest experiment is you put. You get a beaker of water and you suspend a horizontal hydrophilic tube, which is like a protein tube, right? Then in the, so that if the tube is in water, it will form a gel layer on the inside of the tube. Just be the interaction of water and hydrophilic surfaces, and you can prove that because you can stick a pH meter in it, and you can measure the intensity of the pH and the physical characteristics of this gel like fluid.

[00:31:01] Tom Cowan: And then you can do experiments, you can watch the water move in the tube. And the reason it moves in the tube is because if the gel layer is negatively charged, then that means the positive charges have to go into the water. And they repel each other and start moving, right? And so then you can measure the velocity of the water in the tube.

[00:31:26] Tom Cowan: And that gives you an idea of the, the, the strength of the gel layer or the size of it, the quantity of it. And then you can vary the beaker, like you can expose it to sunlight and that will increase the gel layer, speed up the movement. You can put the beaker on. On the earth, and that will increase the gel layer speed up the movement.

[00:31:53] Tom Cowan: So if you want to structure the water in a living system, you expose yourself to sunlight. And that structures the water in you, and you can measure that with certain devices. You can put your feet on the earth, so called grounding, and that will increase the structured water content percentage in you.

[00:32:18] Tom Cowan: You can try different minerals, and that will increase or decrease. If you put your cell phone next to the beaker, the beaker, the water stops moving, because it destructures the water. 

[00:32:32] Tom Cowan: So if you 

[00:32:32] Tom Cowan: want to have destructured water, just carry your cell phone around in your pocket. 

[00:32:38] Christa Biegler, RD: So I'll, I'll summarize, but first you said you can measure the structuring that's happening in the body through grounding and getting sun exposure.

[00:32:46] Christa Biegler, RD: How do you measure? 

[00:32:48] Tom Cowan: There's devices that measure the intensity or the care, the quality of this, of the structured water in your tissues. 

[00:32:57] Christa Biegler, RD: I'm trying to imagine what these might be called or what they're, how they would measure this. 

[00:33:02] Tom Cowan: Yeah, I don't remember the name of the device, but there, there are many different ones.

[00:33:06] Tom Cowan: I mean, that's something, Pollack has done experiments with this, so you can look that up. 

[00:33:13] Christa Biegler, RD: So, to have water in the phase it's meant to be in, in our body, we have to expose ourselves to the ions. I guess not negative ions from grounding, get exposure to sunlight, 

[00:33:27] Tom Cowan: minerals, minerals, and you have to have adequate protein, the right kind of protein after the right kind of ion, you know, distilled water doesn't gel anywhere near like ionized water.

[00:33:41] Tom Cowan: You have to have an energy source, which may be a chemical energy source or it may be. UV light or sunlight or earthing or laying on of hands, other living beings all provide different energy sources. 

[00:33:57] Christa Biegler, RD: That was going to be the question is what do you say to people who are living in dark, low, low light climates, sometimes for days or Alaskans that are in a mostly dark state use alternative energy sources. 

[00:34:13] Tom Cowan: So different foods concentrate and essentially store UV light like fats. So essentially that's why they eat high fat, high like seal blubber diets, because they're essentially, you know, using the stored fat. 

[00:34:34] Christa Biegler, RD: Okay. That makes sense. So cell phones, are we using the word E. M. F. Would destructure the water in our body? 

[00:34:44] Tom Cowan: Essentially, the energy source is. You know, if you don't have an energy, so like, if you put this beaker of water in, there's no, if you put it in a lead box, it stops moving because there's no outside energy to help structure the water. So we live in a electromagnetic environment, right? And And so far as, as we harvest that electromagnetic energy to run our system, we essentially have antenna that download that, that goes into our water and structures the water.

[00:35:28] Tom Cowan: So if you're cut yourself off from the electromagnetic field of the earth, you're not going to do well.

[00:35:37] Christa Biegler, RD: I'm just thinking about I mean, you've talked about how in cancer cells basically clump up because. I'll try to say it like this. Maybe they don't have structured water. Right. Is that a way I could say it. 

[00:35:51] Tom Cowan: So, essentially, what happens is you poison the organism. Right. And the organism to say it says.

[00:36:00] Tom Cowan: I've got to put this poison somewhere out of the way, because I can't excrete it all. So it puts it in a tissue, like a breast tissue. That poisonous stuff, you know, of whatever it is, disturbs the ability of the breast to make normal, structured, healthy breast tissue. And so now you have a, essentially, a bag of debris.

[00:36:32] Tom Cowan: And that's called a tumor with all these disorganized cells, et cetera. , it's actually not that different than if you have a house and somebody puts garbage in your, the foyer of your house, most people will take a bag and put the garbage in the bag and then put it in the garage and then eventually they'll take it out.

[00:36:53] Tom Cowan: That's what your body does. If you fill it with garbage, you put it in a bag and put it in a. Usually not vital place like your garage or your breast or your prostate, not in your brain or heart or liver. Now, if you keep putting more and more garbage, then you get more and more bags and you start putting it in your spare bedroom and then the living room and then the dining room and then your master bedroom and then the kitchen and then you move because you can't live in the house anymore.

[00:37:31] Tom Cowan: That's called metastasis. Right. Now, they say that the tumor cells crawl from the garage to the master bed, to the spare bedroom, right? So they crawl or swim through the bloodstream from your breast to your liver or your brain or wherever else, right? That's what they tell you. So if they tell you that, go to your oncologist and say, can you show me the tumor cells in my blood?

[00:38:04] Tom Cowan: Because obviously that's how they got there. No, why not? Well, they're not enough to see. So how do you know that it swam from my breast to my liver? Well, how else did it get there? Just like how else did the garbage get from your garage to your bedroom? It must have crawled, right? Even though one never sees bags of garbage crawling from the garage to the bedroom.

[00:38:34] Tom Cowan: That's because they don't crawl. And there is no metastasis. There's just a new storage place. because the original place got full. Once that happens and you put garbage , in the tissue, it can't structure the water. There's no charge. Now you have dead, disorganized, stinky, nasty tissue, otherwise known as cancer.

[00:38:59] Tom Cowan: And that's all there is to it. 

[00:39:02] Christa Biegler, RD: So what if there's bags? 

[00:39:03] Tom Cowan: By the 

[00:39:03] Tom Cowan: way, if you look at every successful natural therapy, Gerson diet, Reif machine, you know Kelly diet detoxing saunas, sweat lodges, coffee enemas, everything. They all do the same thing. Get rid of your garbage. 

[00:39:24] Christa Biegler, RD: I mean, I do agree that garbage is a big problem.

[00:39:27] Christa Biegler, RD: Or cancer. And so, I want to ask, if you've got a bag of garbage in the garage, and the spare bedroom, and maybe the living room I mean that's Significant serious right like the garbage is overflowed from the garage. So now it needs you need a new place to put the garbage. 

[00:39:46] Tom Cowan: You've got a problem. 

[00:39:47] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, you got a problem.

[00:39:48] Christa Biegler, RD: So it's sort of like, this works a lot better and prevention, like, don't let the garbage accumulate be the easiest thing. It seems like it would be to do. However, in the nature of humans, we tend to, you know, zoom in on things when they start to affect us, right? Like, sometimes we're not touched by things until, until the garbage is everywhere.

[00:40:13] Christa Biegler, RD: And so. I don't know exactly what the question is, but what advice do you have to a person who's kind of got garbage in lots of rooms? 

[00:40:24] Christa Biegler, RD: So a while back, my college aged daughter shared with me that she was tossing and turning and waking up several times per night after a period of stress. We started her on magnesium and her sleep immediately improved. I personally think magnesium should be your first thing to try if you're having trouble sleeping or staying asleep, especially tossing and turning, and it's a no brainer if you have any restless leg issues.

[00:40:49] Christa Biegler, RD: The thing about magnesium is that there's a lot of types of magnesium that will give you symptomatic relief, but I like to steer my clients and loved ones to a more absorbable form of magnesium, because most big box magnesium is magcitrate, and that will push bowels, but it can be damaging to your teeth if it's used daily and it's not the most Rather, Jigsaw Health makes one of my favorite great tasting magnesium powders called MagSue that has magnesium glycinate, my favorite calming and absorbable type of magnesium. It's available in both a great tasting powder and to go packets, and they also make a product that's great for slow release, especially if you have restless legs, called MagSRT.

[00:41:31] Christa Biegler, RD: So, If you are not falling asleep easily or if you have disrupted sleep, you can try at least 200 milligrams of great magnesium like MagSoothe or MagSRT, especially if you have restless legs. It works better to take this at least 20 minutes before you go to bed to allow it to kick in and you can get a on All of Jigsaw's amazing products, including MagSooth at Jigsaw Health with the code LESSSTRESS10.

[00:41:56] Christa Biegler, RD: Now you can use LESSSTRESS10 as many times as you want with every order at Jigsaw Health, which is honestly pretty unheard of with coupon codes. So enjoy the magnesium from Jigsaw with my code LESSSTRESS10.

[00:42:10] Tom Cowan: Start getting the garbage out, and if you don't know how to do it work with somebody who understands this process, of which, by the way, there are very few people. But you know, we have a online clinic called the New Biology Clinic, and we all think like this.

[00:42:28] Tom Cowan: I don't actually see patients anymore. Or members, we call them, but we've had a number of people who've had like stage four melanomas and other you know, so called incurable or terminal or end stage cancer who have recovered. And we have scans to prove it because once you understand the nature of what you're working with now, the tricky part is.

[00:42:55] Tom Cowan: The garbage can be lots of things. It can be food garbage, water garbage. It can be emotional garbage, and psychic garbage, and trauma garbage. And the way you see the world garbage, and thinking garbage. Like if you think there's viruses, and you think that you have an immune system. That's garbage. Because you're living in a make believe world.

[00:43:22] Tom Cowan: And, the way I describe this, this process, imagine this, I think, imagine, because I like cats, right? So imagine you have this cat and I have this cat and he goes outside. And he sniffs the air and he looks around and his tail goes up, his tail's an antenna, and he goes like this. And he so just kind of gets a sense of what's out there, you know, 'cause there's coyotes and bears and there there's birds that he wants to chase and et cetera.

[00:43:54] Tom Cowan: Right. And then he go decides where he's going to go. Right. Imagine you told his name is pumpkin pumpkin, by the way, there's a thing that's out there that's going to get you. It's your real danger, but you can't see it, smell it, feel it, or sense it in any way. What's he going to do? 

[00:44:18] Christa Biegler, RD: I don't know. I mean, I don't, I don't know if the cat cares or if he's going to run and hide, I suppose.

[00:44:23] Christa Biegler, RD: He would run and hide. Spends on his mannerisms. 

[00:44:26] Tom Cowan: He wouldn't be able to live like that because he would have no felt sense of where he stands 

[00:44:36] Christa Biegler, RD: and 

[00:44:36] Tom Cowan: you cannot live like that, except that's where 99 percent of Americans are living. They think there's all these things which they have no sense of the viruses are gonna get you There's this gonna get you All these things are gonna get you and you don't have any sense of whether they're actually even true Or how to know whether they're there you are in a very vulnerable position and that means you're stressed right because you could get any time, you know, and and That's the way.

[00:45:16] Tom Cowan: So you live in fear, just like pumpkin would live in fear, not knowing if the next move, something he can't see is going to get them. That's where people are these days. And so they have to go back and live in reality. And that's where the, that's the sort of root of the problem, 

[00:45:38] Christa Biegler, RD: but you've got to challenge everything you believe about reality.

[00:45:40] Christa Biegler, RD: So it's going to take some, 

[00:45:42] Tom Cowan: it's going to take some time, right? Because we've been so conditioned not to believe our senses. Whereas you look at traditional people who, by the way, rarely, if ever, in fact, seemingly never got cancer. And you told them you told him that traditional native American, well, it's like pumpkin and you, you got these enemies out there and you can't see them or smell them or anything.

[00:46:07] Tom Cowan: They wouldn't believe you because they can't live like that. Once you convince somebody that that's their reality, they're a goner. 

[00:46:19] Tom Cowan: And that's where 

[00:46:20] Tom Cowan: everybody is at. 

[00:46:22] Christa Biegler, RD: That's unfortunate that we've had quite an experiment for this for a few years. So it makes this like more of a visceral example that you've provided.

[00:46:30] Tom Cowan: You, you got this danger. It's going to kill you, right? You can't see it. You can't smell it. You can't taste it. You have no idea. And you don't even know how anybody knows it's there. And so your only default position is fear and fear is probably the biggest toxin there is. 

[00:46:52] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm intrigued. I wonder how much I agree with you that thought garbage and emotional and trauma garbage is all a significant issue. And it would be interesting to know how that may affect structuring. And in a way, This is kind of the examples I don't know who did the studies on like people talking negatively to plants.

[00:47:15] Christa Biegler, RD: I mean, it's kind of the, what they saw, right? Like they spoke nice things to one plant and they spoke negative things to another plant. And that's kind of the concept of plant, like plants are all structured water. Right. And so it's a very easy, it's a very easy thing. I remember I had this piece of lady named Paco and I left him alone for like a week and I, I came to him and he was like so sad and I gave him water and he came back to life.

[00:47:39] Christa Biegler, RD: And for me, I'm like, okay, I can see. Like, this is like my thought around, like, making sense of, of structured water. So I have a question about. The energy sources that support structuring you brought up the sunlight, you brought up grounding you brought up, you know, foods that store UV light, like fats, you brought up laying of the hands.

[00:47:59] Christa Biegler, RD: Are there any other energy sources? Like, for example, does red light play a role in supporting structuring in the human body? 

[00:48:07] Tom Cowan: Red light is a part of sunlight. 

[00:48:11] Christa Biegler, RD: So any, any wavelength 

[00:48:12] Tom Cowan: that specifically structures the water. 

[00:48:16] Christa Biegler, RD: Maybe. Like just an offhand statement, or you're like, huh, it might actually, like, this actually is kind of maybe important? 

[00:48:22] Tom Cowan: There's a 

[00:48:22] Tom Cowan: lot of research on the, the energetics of red light therapy, and I've used it myself, and I only use red lights, like, as sleeping lights, and I have a red light sauna. There's a lot of evidence for increasing the charge. Of a person through red light therapy, but I don't think it's the only part of sunlight that actually, you know, has a beneficial effect. 

[00:48:49] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, well, it's, I'm probably gonna missed miss speak about this for you. But when we think about the ingredients to make structured water, you brought up ATP, proteins, and the specific type of protein, yes, ions but, 

[00:49:05] Tom Cowan: and water, 

[00:49:07] Christa Biegler, RD: yes, and water, and with red light. essentially the mechanism in research is that it increases ATP.

[00:49:15] Christa Biegler, RD: And whether or not we believe that, it's one of the pieces of the puzzle that you gave us for structuring. Right. 

[00:49:22] Tom Cowan: It seems to be the, the only organelle that's real in a tissue is mitochondria, and they seem to be red light receptors. So that it could be. 

[00:49:36] Christa Biegler, RD: On this note, since we're on the topic of light a little bit, probably multiple wave Lengths of light, probably multiple types of light could support structuring, maybe red light, which are there lights or lights that people that would or destructure?

[00:49:55] Christa Biegler, RD: I don't know how we say it. Unstructure, destructure, because there's a conversation about LED lights. 

[00:50:00] Tom Cowan: Computers. Flickering lights from computers. I don't know if it's just the light or the whole. Electromagnetic frequencies, but something in that mix destructures the water. You can see that because when you put that next to this beaker of water, it stops the water from moving.

[00:50:21] Christa Biegler, RD: How from your visual eyes. You cannot see that water stopping and starting moving. So how do you know if it's Yeah, you 

[00:50:28] Tom Cowan: can. I mean, you can measure it with a velocity measuring device. So you see the flow. 

[00:50:38] Christa Biegler, RD: Let's talk about devices. You've offered that nature is the perfect structuring.

[00:50:45] Christa Biegler, RD: Device somewhat of those are not your words. That's just what I'm taking from it. Nature is the perfect structuring device. What about all the devices on the market that. Advertise structuring. I mean, you did talk about a tube and you kind of went through that. And there are some tubes on the market that supposedly structure water.

[00:51:04] Christa Biegler, RD: But what's your in general thought process about devices that promise to structure water? 

[00:51:10] Tom Cowan: I mean, it depends on what they're saying and what the process, what they're. So for instance, we carry a device called an animal and a lemma wand, which is, you know, supposedly highly structured water in this quartz tube.

[00:51:29] Tom Cowan: And you know, I know the guy who came up with it and I've seen his years of experiments with watering plants and feeding animals. This different water and the biological changes that they get. So those are the studies that actually I care about. Like you take this water that's stirred with this one and you feed these hundred tomato plants and the other hundred tomato plants are exactly the same conditions best you can.

[00:51:56] Tom Cowan: And the only variable is the water and you see it a dramatically different result. And that's what he did. So you can do that. plants, animals, and find out if there's biological differences. Now that doesn't tell you it's because it's structuring the water, but it tells you that there's some changes in the water as a result of stirring this water. 

[00:52:22] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. This is also what I have and I would do. Several blind tests and be like, can you tell the difference and people would be like, that one tastes better. That one tastes smoother. That one tastes different. I did have, like I said, a different device and I was like, I cannot tell anything. Right. So 

[00:52:39] Tom Cowan: some of them seem to work and others don't.

[00:52:41] Tom Cowan: And, you know, most people either don't really test, which is not a good idea because you can't really tell. You can tell a little bit about the smoothness. But you have to do tests and you have to do the only experiments that I pay any attention to anymore are With actual organisms with how they do not whether it changes the ATP or Proteins or any of that stuff that all mean or cell cultures None of that means anything you get this 10 cats and they can jump this high and run for this long And you feed them this water and they can run twice as long and they seem happy and sleep better And you measure their, their parameters, so to speak, and you record it and observe it and see what you see.

[00:53:38] Tom Cowan: That's how I do it. 

[00:53:39] Christa Biegler, RD: Well, on that note, if someone was trying to test some things, if they incorporated a structured water device, and Antelm has a whole home structured water device, I feel like anything can happen, so there would be lots of potential, like that would be the only input you could have, and it's like, what are all the things that you could test around this?

[00:53:59] Christa Biegler, RD: So the real question is like, how would you encourage someone to test for themselves whether this is making a viable difference for them? 

[00:54:07] Tom Cowan: It's the same question I asked every patient when they came back. I told them they said that they have this and they have that or whatever they have. And then I would say, do this, eat this way, move this way, whatever I told them.

[00:54:20] Tom Cowan: Stir your water or something, they come back in a month. How's your life? It's better. So convince me that it's better. I'm sleeping better, I'm getting along with my wife better, my foot doesn't hurt anymore. Used to be my knee was twice the size of the other knee. And now it's normal, and I used to not be able to walk very much, and now I can walk normal, and my work is going well, and I've made more money, and everything's good.

[00:54:52] Tom Cowan: And, you know, it also takes practice to know that, because, you know, like, like you can do put somebody comes in, they say they're depressed. 

[00:55:02] Christa Biegler, RD: Right? 

[00:55:03] Tom Cowan: So tell me about your life. Well, you know, I'm not getting along with my wife and I'm not doing well at work and I'm think I'm going bankrupt, etc. And I'm really depressed.

[00:55:15] Tom Cowan: So you give him an antidepressant, right? That's what they do. Comes back in a month. How are you feeling? Oh, much better. Not depressed. So how's your wife? Oh, we got divorced. How's your job? Oh, I got fired. How's your finances? Oh, I went bankrupt. So what happened? Their life isn't better. They just are numb. 

[00:55:37] Christa Biegler, RD: Mm hmm. 

[00:55:38] Tom Cowan: That's the difference. So I'm interested. Convince me what's different about your life. And don't like prejudice the witness. If it's worse, it's worse. If it's better, it's better. 

[00:55:52] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, so there could be multiple things. 

[00:55:55] Tom Cowan: And so I don't I'm not saying look for sleep. Look for this. And the more you see, that's gets to the other point.

[00:56:03] Tom Cowan: I said, we don't even know how to know whether we're better or not. Now can tell you I've gone, you know, essentially 40 years without a blood test or a physical exam or any. outside input into how I'm doing. I decided I'm just going to figure it out for based on how I feel. And if I don't think I'm doing right, I'm going to eat differently, move differently, think differently.

[00:56:34] Tom Cowan: walk differently, sleep something, you know, change my mattress pad, something. And what happens is you practice assessing over your lifetime. That's normal human behavior, 

[00:56:50] Tom Cowan: but we've 

[00:56:50] Tom Cowan: been convinced not to do that. So people say, are you better? I have no idea. My doctor said my A1c is 5 percent worse. So I must be worse.

[00:57:05] Tom Cowan: You, you outsourced your power. 

[00:57:08] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, I agree with you completely about this. I think once you harness the skill and develop the skill of assessment and awareness, which could be. The same, I guess, for me, I think that you're a bit unstoppable. Like there's nothing that I think that's when like things really open up for possibilities.

[00:57:28] Christa Biegler, RD: I think this is where 

[00:57:29] Tom Cowan: you're in control. 

[00:57:30] Christa Biegler, RD: Right. Exactly. This puts you in control to be able to be aware. And to assess and to the other piece of that, which you said in different words is like to practice that without expectation sometimes, because I think we have to collect sometimes failures.

[00:57:47] Christa Biegler, RD: Like sometimes this experiment didn't work the way I wanted it to, and I have to be neutral about that and adjust 

[00:57:54] Tom Cowan: most of the things they don't work, which is good because then you find out that that didn't work. 

[00:57:59] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, exactly. It's just as much, every experience is a success, is a is a Louise Hay quote that I actually really love.

[00:58:09] Christa Biegler, RD: I was reading some reviews of your book and the reviewers were praising some things and, and I wanted to draw this out. I thought this was a really beautiful thing. And this is something that I've come to quite often. Absolutely on the heels of this last point you just offered, like outsourcing your power.

[00:58:28] Christa Biegler, RD: And re harnessing your power, really. So I had done lots of coaching around thoughts, and I find I always have to be renewing the mind. To ask better questions. And so very often, I'm sure you saw this all the time, too. But very often, people say, should I do this? Or should I do that? And so one of the reviews for your book said, the question is really, am I asking the wrong question?

[00:58:48] Christa Biegler, RD: Or what assumptions am I making that may be incorrect? I call it like, let's ask ourselves, like, the quality of our question determines the quality of the answer quite often. Is this something that you talk a lot about in your book or with in your education about asking these proper. I mean, I feel that this is kind of the premise of how you've arrived to where you are is like being in a obscene questioner overall. 

[00:59:15] Tom Cowan: Well, I ask a lot of questions. I mean, I have a very specific strategy when I hear something that I am interested in, and I don't know, I. Ask every question I can think of to get the full perspective of the person who's telling me whatever they're telling me. And then I repeat it back and I asked them to correct me of anything that I got wrong.

[00:59:42] Tom Cowan: And I did that basically with every patient encounter. I asked them all kinds of questions except why I never asked somebody why they're sick. Because A, they don't know and B, that's my job. So when did your foot hurt? What does it feel like? How did this come about anything you could tell me about when your foot started hurting or what it feels like, and then I would tell it back to them and ask them if I got it right, and then I would.

[01:00:17] Tom Cowan: Usually that process would unlock their understanding of what happened.

[01:00:22] Christa Biegler, RD: In the vein of asking yourself good questions. I'm going to just quickly verbally summarize our conversation as I saw it play out a little bit, we talked a little bit about defining structured water as the fourth phase of water in general. As a gel, even though if you're using something like an animal, I'm a wand.

[01:00:45] Christa Biegler, RD: I would say that the water does not appear to be a gel. But that was the analogy that was used. We talked about how cancer cells kind of clump together. So we talked to a touch about hydration how a sodium potassium pump is not. Validated and proven we talked more importantly about potentially how to make this structured water.

[01:01:08] Christa Biegler, RD: What the ingredients are to make that we talked about natural inputs from nature on how to create how to improve structuring potentially in living organisms, including ourselves. We talked about what. Rob's us of structured water, which we kind of summarize to electromagnetic fields. And I would wonder if there's other pollutants that really compromise structure also as well.

[01:01:37] Christa Biegler, RD: We talked about those pieces and we talked just a bit about. Devices specifically about one that we both have. Is there anything that you would want someone that's listening to this to know about structured water that we did not mention or is there a question that you would. And maybe it's just something you've already said.

[01:01:57] Christa Biegler, RD: Is there a question you would leave them with to kind of chew on as they kind of go forth in their own journey. 

[01:02:06] Tom Cowan: I mean, if you start learning about water, you'll start learning about life. So I would just if you haven't ever thought about it or looked into it, start looking into water. 

[01:02:20] Christa Biegler, RD: It's a kind of a big topic.

[01:02:22] Christa Biegler, RD: I agree. 

[01:02:23] Tom Cowan: Big topic. Because it's life. 

[01:02:25] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. Big topic. 

[01:02:26] Tom Cowan: Without water, there's no life. 

[01:02:27] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. So much to talk about. So many questions I get all the time about. Water quality, et cetera. So thanks for resurfacing structured water for me. This was a topic. I visited at least 18 months ago with a wand that's on my shelf.

[01:02:44] Christa Biegler, RD: So it's something I'll have to decide what my own tests are going to be on the outside and determine what I think works. Thank you very much for coming on today. 

[01:02:54] Tom Cowan: Okay. Thank you.