#345 Human Heart, Cosmic Heart with Tom Cowan

This week on The Less Stressed Life Podcast, I am joined by Tom Cowan who was previously a general practicing medical doctor. He is a well known author and speaker. In this episode, we mainly discuss Tom's book Human Heart, Cosmic Heart where he studied the claim made by Rudolf Steiner that the heart is not a pump. Tom presents a new way of understanding the role of the heart in the human body. Hang on tight! Tom offers us viewpoints that many of you may disagree with but I challenge you to expand your horizons and really listen to what Tom says.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• What was the reason for writing Human Heart, Cosmic Heart?
• Science is a series of claims
• What does the heart do?
• How does blood move?
• What is the evidence that blocked arteries or plaque in arteries causes heart attacks?
• What is strophanthus?
• What are some solutions for heart disease?

ABOUT GUEST:
Dr. Thomas Cowan is a well-known alternative medicine doctor, author and speaker, with a common-sense, holistic approach to health and wellness. He has given countless lectures and workshops throughout the U.S. on a variety of subjects in health and medicine, and is the author of six best-selling books, including "The Contagion Myth” co-authored by Sally Fallon Morell, “Cancer and the New Biology of Water,” "Human Heart, Cosmic Heart,” “Vaccines, Autoimmunity and the Changing Nature of Childhood Illness,” “The Nourishing Traditions Book of Baby and Child Care” co-authored by Sally Fallon Morell, and “The Fourfold Path to Healing” (with Sally Fallon and Jaimen McMillan).

WHERE TO FIND:
Website: https://drtomcowan.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drcowanspowders/

***WORK WITH CHRISTA***: https://www.christabiegler.com/fss

WHERE TO FIND CHRISTA:
Website: https://www.christabiegler.com/
Instagram: @anti.inflammatory.nutritionist
Podcast Instagram: @lessstressedlife
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lessstressedlife
Leave a review, submit a questions for the podcast or take one of my quizzes here: https://www.christabiegler.com/links

NUTRITION PHILOSOPHY OF LESS STRESSED LIFE: 

• Over restriction is dead; if your practitioner is recommending this, they are stuck in 2010 and not evolving
• Whole food is soul food and fed is best
• Sustainable, synergistic nutrition is in (the opposite of whack-a-mole supplementation & supplement graveyards)
• You don’t have to figure it out alone
• Do your best and leave the rest

EPISODE SPONSOR:
A special thanks to Jigsaw Health for sponsoring this episode. Get a discount on any of their products, including my favorite, Pickleball Cocktail. Use the code lessstressed10. 

Transcript

[00:00:00] Christa Biegler, RD: As we were preparing to release former Dr. Tom Cowan's episode on the human heart and cosmic heart, which was just sort of where our conversation organically led us. I wanted to give a little primer to this episode. So I found Tom from a list of authors. I was being pitched or emailed about a book from a certain author.

[00:00:21] Christa Biegler, RD: And there was an other lists of authors and Tom has some other topics I'm really curious about. You're not supposed to peg people as Enneagrams, but I would call Tom a strong Enneagram 8, or a challenger. He was just frustrated by being told how he should think and just kept questioning the current narrative, which led him down the rabbit holes he has arrived at.

[00:00:41] Christa Biegler, RD: So it takes a minute. It's uncomfortable to have our narratives challenged, but in this Episode. He very much challenges some of the things we often think about with heart health. And just like I mentioned in last week's episode, sometimes it's great to bring in other viewpoints and to expand our possible horizons or look at other viewpoints and opinions or to welcome those other than my own.

[00:01:07] Christa Biegler, RD: I actually am hoping to have, Tom back to talk about structured water after I wrap my head around that a bit, because I think he may offer a very different point around structured water that we've not had before. So enjoy this, questioning, challenging approach to heart health from Tom Cowan.

[00:01:27] Christa Biegler, RD: I'm your host, Krista Bingler, and I'm going to guess we have at least one thing in common that we're both in pursuit of a less stressed life. On this show, I'll be interviewing experts and sharing clinical pearls from my years of practice to support high performing health savvy women in pursuit of abundance and a less stressed life.

[00:01:56] Christa Biegler, RD: One of my beliefs is that we always have options for getting the results we want. So let's see what's out there together.

[00:02:14] Christa Biegler, RD: All right, so today I have Tom Cowan. I've already done the introduction. We're going to jump right in. I hope it's okay. I'd love to talk to you about your story because so often we start life. It goes this kind of typical way we think it should go.

[00:02:29] Christa Biegler, RD: I was reading on your website and you bring this up a little bit and then. We start to learn more, and then we're discontented with what we're doing. And I feel like your story is a meandering partially of that topic. Will you tell us a little bit about how you got into some of the topics you're into now that we'll talk about today between cancer genomics, or the lack of structured water, et cetera.

[00:02:50] Christa Biegler, RD: How did some of this come about? 

[00:02:55] Dr. Tom Cowan: Yeah, just as an interesting thing, why I don't like people calling me doctor. First of all, I'm not a practicing doctor anymore and I gave up my license, but you know what the word doctor means? 

[00:03:06] Christa Biegler, RD: I don't. 

[00:03:07] Dr. Tom Cowan: If I said what would you do if you doctor a document?

[00:03:12] Christa Biegler, RD: Modify, edit 

[00:03:13] Christa Biegler, RD: change it. Yes.

[00:03:14] Dr. Tom Cowan: And in a nefarious way, right? If you doctor somebody's food, it's usually not a good thing. So doctor means to change things in a nefarious way. And then think about curing. What does it mean to cure something like meat? 

[00:03:32] Christa Biegler, RD: Age.

[00:03:33] Dr. Tom Cowan: Preserve it. 

[00:03:34] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah.

[00:03:35] Dr. Tom Cowan: So if a doctor says, I'm a doctor, I'm going to cure you of cancer. He means there's a nefarious guy who's going to preserve your cancer. So that's actually what it means. So I was normal. Growing up, but I somehow didn't like medicine and even though I was good in school and all that.

[00:03:56] Dr. Tom Cowan: And so I decided to try to do anything I could to figure out how not to be a doctor, but it didn't work. And then I realized that the kind of doctor I didn't like was not the only kind of doctor there was. And that allowed me to go to medical school. So I've been a renegade for 40 some years.

[00:04:17] Dr. Tom Cowan: And so essentially, my whole career has been trying to figure out which part of this indoctrination right? There's that word again is actually true. And what's so interesting is that the longer and harder and better I look, the fewer and fewer things that I was indoctrinated to believe actually are true, at least as far as I can see.

[00:04:44] Christa Biegler, RD: Can you tell me? I want to understand, it sounds like someone was forcing you to go to medical school the way you brought that story up. Was there a story 

[00:04:51] Christa Biegler, RD: to that? 

[00:04:52] Dr. Tom Cowan: Only that I grew up, my father and grandfather were dentists. A lot of their friends were actually well known doctors, like one guy invented the laser for gynecology surgery.

[00:05:04] Dr. Tom Cowan: Another guy was, essentially started immunotherapy for cancer treatment. So these were the, the people that I played baseball with it in the park on Sunday. So I was, and every, Oh, Tom, he's really good in school, nobody said you have to be a doctor because I wouldn't have listened anyway. Yeah. It was just in the vibe. 

[00:05:26] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, okay. So you go to medical school and then were you practicing for a while before? 

[00:05:31] Dr. Tom Cowan: I had a general practice for 37 years

[00:05:35] Christa Biegler, RD: for a while. 

[00:05:36] Dr. Tom Cowan: Yeah. So everybody, and cancer patients, ear infections, everything, colds, flus, rheumatoid arthritis, what you name it.

[00:05:46] Dr. Tom Cowan: And I just kept trying to figure out what makes people sick and how do they get better? That's it. And with this little, I often say, because now I'm became known, I, for a Bunch of things, but there is no such thing as a virus as an example. So I went into it what I would say, not having a dog in this fight, like I didn't care if there was a virus or not, if you could convince me based on the evidence that there is, and that they make you sick, fine.

[00:06:20] Dr. Tom Cowan: If not. That's fine too. A lot of people don't approach it like that. They either have a financial interest or more particularly an emotional interest. One of my first books was The Heart Doesn't Pump the Blood. And I spent 20 years looking at that. And I also realized that The process of logic, rational thinking and science, and this is the key revelation in my life, was that you don't have to know what is true to know what isn't true, that science is a series of claims.

[00:07:01] Dr. Tom Cowan: The heart pumps the blood, right? The heart is a pressure propulsion device that causes the blood to move in our bodies. That's the claim. So then you can investigate the claim and you may never know what actually makes the blood move. I think I do actually but even if I don't, it doesn't mean that the heart pumps the blood.

[00:07:28] Dr. Tom Cowan: And I have a lot of examples of that where that's the process of science trying to validate or invalidate claims. You don't need another explanation for why somebody gets sick. What I found is that if you do that properly, it will actually lead you, if you stay open, or what I call in a state of wonder, you will start learning why people actually do get sick, or what makes the blood move, etc.

[00:07:58] Dr. Tom Cowan: But that's not where you start. You start by, so called debunking claims. And that's what I spent my life doing. 

[00:08:07] Christa Biegler, RD: So I think your first book is called something like conscious heart something. No. Will you tell me what the name of it is? 

[00:08:14] Dr. Tom Cowan: Human heart, cosmic heart. 

[00:08:15] Christa Biegler, RD: There you go.

[00:08:16] Dr. Tom Cowan: That's not my first. The first book was called the fourfold path to healing. That was 25 years ago about path. involving thinking and emotions and movement and food. Those are the four paths. And then we wrote it, the nourishing traditions of baby and childcare, which is about children and like the books.

[00:08:41] Dr. Tom Cowan: And then came three books human heart, cosmic heart vaccines, and auto immunity and Cancer and the new biology of water 

[00:08:51] Christa Biegler, RD: huge topics, 

[00:08:52] Dr. Tom Cowan: and then recently the book called the contagion myth, which is that there's no such thing as contagious illness. 

[00:09:01] Christa Biegler, RD: All right. 

[00:09:02] Christa Biegler, RD: I don't know how we're going to accomplish all these tasks today, Tom, but we're going to try.

[00:09:06] Christa Biegler, RD: And you can redirect me. So when human heart, cosmic heart, what was the reason you wrote the book? Let me try it that way because the claim is that the heart pumps the blood. And you would say that claim is maybe not true, but you don't have to know it's true. If you can 

[00:09:22] Dr. Tom Cowan: know that claim is not true.

[00:09:23] Dr. Tom Cowan: It's easy to demonstrate so that book looked at 2 claims. 1 is the heart pumps the blood or more technically. The heart acts as a pressure propulsion device, propelling the blood because of the mechanical squeezing of the heart. That's what we're taught and told. And the second is the predominant, almost exclusive reason for heart attacks is blocked arteries.

[00:09:53] Dr. Tom Cowan: We have three coronary arteries and they get blocked with plaque and the blood can't get through and then you die of a heart attack or you have a heart attack. So I looked at that claim and found out that neither of those are true. The heart is not a pressure propulsion device and blocked arteries have little if anything to do with what we call heart attacks.

[00:10:17] Christa Biegler, RD: Can we make any I don't know if we, I'm trying to think of how to ask this question because I feel like I'm trying to reverse engineer the questions. Was the purpose to disprove that heart attacks were by clogged arteries? Are there many reasons that happens? And what are your thoughts about what does cause the heart to pump?

[00:10:39] Christa Biegler, RD: I think you brought that up earlier. 

[00:10:42] Dr. Tom Cowan: Okay, so just be to be clear what we're doing here, we should look at one of those claims. The heart pumps the blood and see if that's true. And only then say, okay, if that's not true, then how does the blood move? And then if you want, we could say, okay, what is the evidence that blocked arteries or plaque in the arteries causes heart attacks?

[00:11:07] Dr. Tom Cowan: Why is that important? Because we have an approximately 100 billion a year industry unblocking people's arteries. Stents, statins, court bypasses, et cetera. It's the number one moneymaker for most hospitals in the United States. There was a recent study in the Lancet 2018 showing 50 billion worth of stents per year, showing no benefit from stents.

[00:11:35] Dr. Tom Cowan: They don't prolong life. They don't prevent further heart attacks. And for the first time ever, they did a essentially a blinded study. So they took people with chest pain. They did a stent in half the other half. They put a catheter and told them they did a stent, but didn't. And they had the same amount of chest pain 6 weeks later.

[00:11:57] Dr. Tom Cowan: If we let's get into that 1 1st, because it's a big deal for people. So the way I got into this, it's basically simple logic, and sometimes it helps if I ask you just so you're I'm clear you're with me. Okay, so the claim is, you have these three major coronary arteries.

[00:12:18] Dr. Tom Cowan: Essentially, all the blood to your heart goes through those three vessels, and if one gets significantly blocked with plaque, and there's a whole lot of conversation about why you get plaque, is it inflammation, is it cholesterol, is it this? That's not the issue here. Whatever causes the plaque, which you can see, does that cause the heart attack?

[00:12:41] Dr. Tom Cowan: That's the claim. So the first thing I thought of was because I was also an ER doctor for 10 years. So I saw a lot of people with heart attacks, so I had a lot of time to question them. So I say to myself, okay, are the blood vessels, the arteries, the same everywhere in the body, right? In other words, your coronary arteries, they made of the same thing as the splenic artery, carotid artery, hepatic artery.

[00:13:10] Dr. Tom Cowan: What do you think? 

[00:13:12] Christa Biegler, RD: I would just guess yes. 

[00:13:14] Dr. Tom Cowan: Yes, that's a good because we don't have a special artery for our heart. Okay, so there's something depositing in those arteries. Next question. Is the blood the same? The blood that goes through your heart and your spleen and your liver and your brain, it's the same, right?

[00:13:32] Dr. Tom Cowan: Okay, so if there's, if the blood is depositing something in the arteries, which are the same, then you would probably get plaque all over your body. If it's too much cholesterol, too much inflammation, too much infection, there's a lot of theories on the plaque, right? So you get plaque in your spleen artery, plaque in your liver artery, plaque in your coronary arteries, etc.

[00:13:58] Dr. Tom Cowan: Okay? Do you know of anybody or heard of anybody who's ever had a heart attack? 

[00:14:03] Christa Biegler, RD: Yes. 

[00:14:04] Dr. Tom Cowan: How about a spleen attack? Never. I've asked over 100, 000 people by now at, and been in ERs, et cetera. Nobody I know ever had a spleen attack or knows anybody. How come just one artery to your spleen, it gets plaque.

[00:14:23] Dr. Tom Cowan: Why do you get a spleen, a heart attack, not a spleen attack or a liver attack or a kidney attack or a foot attack or any other attack? 

[00:14:32] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. I have no idea. 

[00:14:33] Dr. Tom Cowan: Yeah. I didn't either. Nobody told me why. I thought that's strange. If it's just plaque, why not spleen attacks? So then I started hearing stories, and a lot of them went like this.

[00:14:48] Dr. Tom Cowan: I was a normal 50 year old guy, walked up a hill with my wife. I started having a little chest pain. Wife got nervous, told me I had to go to the cardiologist. Cardiologist does some tests and eventually does an angiogram where they stick the dye in. And they say, they usually wag your finger. You have a 93 percent blockage.

[00:15:09] Dr. Tom Cowan: If you block anymore, you're going to have a heart attack. 

[00:15:12] Christa Biegler, RD: I heard this story like three days ago. 

[00:15:14] Dr. Tom Cowan: Yeah, you hear it. I heard it hundreds of times, maybe thousands. Now let's think about that. All the blood goes through your coronary arteries, right? You got one of them. So one of the areas, major areas to your heart has 7 percent blood flow, right?

[00:15:35] Christa Biegler, RD: Yes. 

[00:15:35] Dr. Tom Cowan: How'd you walk up that hill? 

[00:15:38] Christa Biegler, RD: The other arteries? 

[00:15:40] Dr. Tom Cowan: They don't go to that part of the heart. 

[00:15:45] Christa Biegler, RD: I don't know, with the 7 percent blood flow, with the oxi I have no idea. 

[00:15:48] Dr. Tom Cowan: Yeah, I have no idea either. And you, not you, but the cardio, you mean to tell me that if I block from 7 percent down to what, 6 percent or 4%, that's going to kill me.

[00:16:02] Dr. Tom Cowan: That made no sense to me. If you got 7 percent blood flow, you got no blood flow. And I don't know how you walked up that hill. So that didn't make any sense to me either. Now I'm not, I'm just using my, what I'm told and investigating those claims. So then I go to the literature and looked at every single autopsy study since 1930, when they started in 1940.

[00:16:31] Dr. Tom Cowan: with this coronary artery theory. And the first thing I found out was most cardiologists didn't believe it. In fact, they said the people with the plaque get less heart attacks than the people who don't have plaque. Okay. So then they did autopsies to prove it. In other words, somebody dies of a heart attack.

[00:16:51] Dr. Tom Cowan: They cut open their arteries. See how many of them had significant plaque. The numbers that I found were a low of 18%. Which means 82%. of people who died of heart attacks. That's the worst of the worst, had no plaque of any significance. And the highest number I found was 78%, which still means 22 percent didn't have any plaque of any significance.

[00:17:20] Dr. Tom Cowan: So why did they die? Now, then I found that there's the best study ever done by a guy named Giorgio Baroldi, Italian pathologist, looks for 40 years, does autopsies on everybody who died of a heart attack, Exactly 41 percent of the people had significant plaque of which over half came after the heart attack.

[00:17:45] Dr. Tom Cowan: Not before. In other words, the best information we have is that only 80 percent even have plaque of any significance who die of a heart attack, which means what happened to those other 80%. Nobody ever said anything in all my medical training, any cardiology. It was all about the plaque and blocked arteries.

[00:18:11] Dr. Tom Cowan: So that made me conclude that there is actually no evidence that blocked arteries cause heart attack. 

[00:18:20] Christa Biegler, RD: It makes sense. 

[00:18:21] Dr. Tom Cowan: The numbers don't add up. So then I tried to figure out so what does cause a heart attack? And why does the plaque happen after? And that takes a little bit longer. But basically, and why the heart and not the spleen?

[00:18:37] Dr. Tom Cowan: So it turns out the heart is the most metabolically active organ. uses the most energy, which they say is ATP, but turns out it isn't. ATP has nothing to do with energy, but that's a different story. It uses the most energy and it's the most likely to go to do this so called glycolytic shift, which means it goes anaerobic and starts fermenting instead of respiring, right?

[00:19:06] Dr. Tom Cowan: Usually you use Although it turns out we don't actually breathe in oxygen, but that's a whole nother story. We make energy through oxidative phosphorylation, but if we have an exceed our capacity or have some event happen or something, if we run too much, our leg goes anaerobic.

[00:19:28] Dr. Tom Cowan: it ferments, it builds up lactic acid, we get a cramp, which hurts, and then we stop running. Same thing happens in the heart, except it's much more likely to do that lactic acid builds up because of this fermentation, you get a drop in the pH, that causes cramps just like your leg. Same thing happens in your spleen, except your spleen and your leg and your liver can stop, and your heart can't.

[00:20:00] Dr. Tom Cowan: It's not pushing, but it's expanding and contracting. And so it can't stop. And so the lactic acid builds up, you go acidotic, that creates a necrosis or a breakdown of the tissue. And that's what we call heart attack. And then the blood can't go through that dead tissue. So it's like a river that's been dammed.

[00:20:25] Dr. Tom Cowan: And you get debris build up upstream of the dam, which is why you get all of the coronary artery blockages happen after the damage, not before. Just like Biroldi found. Can 

[00:20:41] Christa Biegler, RD: I 

[00:20:41] Christa Biegler, RD: ask a question? 

[00:20:43] Dr. Tom Cowan: Yeah, and by the way, the benefit of that is, it turns out there's a very simple herbal medicine that gets rid of the lactic acid as it's building up in your heart.

[00:20:54] Dr. Tom Cowan: It has been used. Almost with amazing success for over a hundred years, except they don't like it to prevent heart attacks, even in hospitals. And all it does is get rid of the lactic acid because that was the central, essentially poison in this drama. So now stop. 

[00:21:16] Christa Biegler, RD: What 

[00:21:16] Christa Biegler, RD: is the, I have to ask you next what the herb is.

[00:21:20] Dr. Tom Cowan: Strophanthus it's called. 

[00:21:21] Christa Biegler, RD: Strophanthus? Yeah, 

[00:21:23] Dr. Tom Cowan: nobody ever heard of it, but. 

[00:21:25] Christa Biegler, RD: No.

[00:21:26] Dr. Tom Cowan: We have resurrected it as a medicine because it clears the lactic acid converts it into something called pyruvate which goes into the so called oxidative phosphorylation cycle. I don't like to think in these sort of biochemistry terms, but that's it also helps the parasympathetic nervous system.

[00:21:48] Dr. Tom Cowan: And a lot of the reason why your heart loses energy. Is because it's under too much so called sympathetic, tone, so to speak. 

[00:22:00] Christa Biegler, RD: Strophanthus, is that what you said? 

[00:22:02] Dr. Tom Cowan: Strophanthus, 

[00:22:03] Dr. Tom Cowan: yes. 

[00:22:03] Christa Biegler, RD: Strophanthus. It was in, I don't know if you mentioned this. Was this popular in a particular culture? How did you learn about the herb?

[00:22:12] Dr. Tom Cowan: It was part of the German naturopathic circles that I frequented for a while. It was used in American medicine for decades. And, there's even it was called a Strophanthus challenge test if you had heart Chest pain, you want to know if it was your heart, they give you strophantis.

[00:22:30] Dr. Tom Cowan: If it went away, it was your heart. If it wasn't, if it didn't, it was something else. And I knew they got rid of it because they wanted this coronary artery theory, which has essentially made them a fortune. 

[00:22:44] Christa Biegler, RD: Okay. I have a couple of questions. We're talking about lactic acid buildup. And then this makes me think of the story I was listening to this week about someone presenting.

[00:22:54] Christa Biegler, RD: With a lot of blockage, right? The story you've heard hundreds of thousands of times. But the piece of the story I want to clarify that I'm unsure of where it fits into, as you laid that out, is that this person, his only symptom was that he was just short of breath doing his everyday things, right?

[00:23:12] Christa Biegler, RD: Feeding the animals or whatever. So then he goes in, has this blockage, has surgery, blah, blah, blah, right? I think all fits together. Can you speak to shortness of breath and that symptom presenting for someone? 

[00:23:32] Dr. Tom Cowan: There could be a lot of reasons for that. One of the things I've learned in my career is that, not only do viruses not exist and, the disease categories we have learned.

[00:23:45] Dr. Tom Cowan: Don't exist either. People have individual stories. . And you'd have to know the whole story, talk about that generically. If your heart is dysfunctional, you have a metabolic disturbance, which means that you're not able to generate energy. And one of the repercussions of that could be shortness of breath.

[00:24:10] Dr. Tom Cowan: And it also gets into the whole thing of what is the evidence that we actually absorb oxygen from the air, which is what we're told. And there's very clear evidence that cannot be possible, that what we absorb from the air. And actually from oxygen, which doesn't, that one of the paradoxes of the absorption of oxygen story, because that's what it is the air is 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen, and then 1 percent trace elements, right?

[00:24:45] Dr. Tom Cowan: Now, if you breathe the air in, it's got to go through the alveolar membrane. And then the capillary membrane and then the red blood cell membranes. That's three membranes to attach to the hemoglobin in the red blood cell. We're told that now here's what's interesting about that story. We say there's this dissolved gas oxygen or this free gas.

[00:25:12] Dr. Tom Cowan: That's even a better free gas in the air that goes through those three membranes. But if you look at it nitrogen, which is 78%, which nobody says gets absorbed. In fact, you can measure the oxygen. The nitrogen in is 78%. Oxygen out is 78%. How do you keep nitrogen, which is smaller, they say, than oxygen from absorbing through those same three membranes?

[00:25:43] Dr. Tom Cowan: Or as I like to say, you've got a door that's meant to keep elephants out. How do you keep the mosquitoes out too? 

[00:25:52] Christa Biegler, RD: .I have no idea. 

[00:25:52] Dr. Tom Cowan: The dorsal is too small to, it's obviously the membrane windows or absorption or whatever that is, supposedly allowing oxygen in is oxygen is bigger than nitrogen.

[00:26:08] Dr. Tom Cowan: How does that happen? It's the same problem as switching subjects. They say we got this DNA in our nucleus, right? DNA in the nucleus makes M RNA in the nucleus. It goes from the nucleus, which has a membrane. You can see it into the cytoplasm and gets translated into proteins, right? That's what we're told.

[00:26:37] Dr. Tom Cowan: You can put a probe in the cytoplasm in the nucleus and the P H at the same time. is different. Repeatable, you can measure it again and again. Every single cell, pH in the nucleus is different than the pH in the cytoplasm. We're told the pH is because of hydrogen ions, right? If they're different, that must mean because they don't equilibrate across the nuclear membrane.

[00:27:06] Dr. Tom Cowan: Otherwise, the pH would be the same. An mRNA is, let's just put a number, a million times bigger than a hydrogen ion. So how does the mRNA get out of the nucleus without letting the hydrogen ion in? 

[00:27:24] Christa Biegler, RD: I have no idea. 

[00:27:25] Dr. Tom Cowan: Neither does anybody else. It's the how do you have a door that keeps the elephants, lets the elephant go out.

[00:27:34] Dr. Tom Cowan: But doesn't let the mosquitoes in here's the only possible answer. 

Woof, woof, woof, woof, woof!

[00:27:40] Christa Biegler, RD: If you're urinating a lot when you're drinking water, maybe you're not actually hydrating that much. Or, in other words, getting the fluid and nutrients into the cell. Electrolytes are minerals that help fluid and nutrients get into the cell. I recommend all of my clients start by drinking electrolytes when we begin our work together, so to improve energy.

[00:28:00] Christa Biegler, RD: And then we get even more strategic with our electrolyte recommendations as test results come in. Now, generally electrolytes are potassium, sodium, and chloride. One of my favorite electrolyte products is pickleball cocktail from jigsaw health, because it's one of the only products you can get with an adequate dose of potassium to meet my recommendations, which is critical for blood sugar, which everyone should care about hormone health.

[00:28:23] Christa Biegler, RD: And digestion huge thing for relapsing digestive issues. Jigsaw health is also maker of the famous adrenal cocktail made popular by the pro metabolic corner of the internet and root cause protocol, as well as a multi mineral electrolyte for recovery called electrolyte supreme. You can get a discount on all of jigsaw's amazing products, including pickleball, electrolyte, supreme, and adrenal cocktail at jigsawhealth.

[00:28:47] Christa Biegler, RD: com with the code less stressed 10. That's three S's less stressed. Ten. 

[00:28:54] Dr. Tom Cowan: That's not possible. 

[00:28:55] Dr. Tom Cowan: So they have these things, which if you examine the claim, simply can't be possible. But we need oxygen, right? Because if you don't have oxygen, you die. But oxygen donates electrons. Electrons freely pass through membranes.

[00:29:15] Dr. Tom Cowan: , although turns out electrons don't really exist either, but they're electronegative charges and we're breathing oxygen, but we're getting electronegative charges and when we don't have enough of those, we feel short of breath.

[00:29:31] Dr. Tom Cowan: So that's what's happening to that person and those electronegative charges. Deficiency is essentially the elect is the metabolic reason why his heart is dysfunctional. So that's why he's got those two symptoms. 

[00:29:50] Christa Biegler, RD: This reminds me of the studies that Dr. Jerry Tennant is into. 

[00:29:57] Christa Biegler, RD: A little bit. 

[00:29:59] Dr. Tom Cowan: We are electromagnetic.

[00:30:01] Dr. Tom Cowan: Organisms we're not a chemistry set and they keep trying to tell us, oh, it's all about chemicals and all that. It's not. And when you just look at the claim, okay, this is bigger than this. It should go through the membrane and it doesn't. You can prove it doesn't. They even say it doesn't. Nitrogen doesn't get absorbed.

[00:30:26] Dr. Tom Cowan: How do you do that? How does the body? No, they don't have any answer because it doesn't happen like that. 

[00:30:33] Christa Biegler, RD: Now that I'm thinking about the topics that you have books on, I'm starting to see the potential pattern around.

[00:30:41] Christa Biegler, RD: Energy or electromagnetic force potentially, right? Because that's what I think about with structured water a little bit, which is another thing. Let me ask you this as well. How does heart coherence play into this topic? 

[00:30:54] Dr. Tom Cowan: That's what you mean by heart coherence. 

[00:30:56] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, 

[00:30:56] Christa Biegler, RD: true. I think that may have been a, I'm not sure.

[00:31:01] Christa Biegler, RD: I feel like that term is widely accepted in some places and not others. And I'm not sure if it's because heart math came, coined the term. I'm 

[00:31:09] Christa Biegler, RD: not 

[00:31:09] Dr. Tom Cowan: right. But they don't define it. So nobody knows what you're talking about. 

[00:31:13] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. You're. Parasympathetic sympathetic balance, but I'm not sure I think that's an incorrect term as well.

[00:31:21] Dr. Tom Cowan: Yeah, you're already too down the stream. You got to go back up the stream. What is the heart do, just to give you an example. So the heart pumps the blood. So you got this. If you look at a flow chart, velocity of the blood moving into the heart. It's the same approximately as the blood exiting the heart, right?

[00:31:45] Dr. Tom Cowan: So you got this blood moving, goes through the heart, exits, same velocity. Then it goes down through this arteries, arterioles, capillaries, and it stops, right? Cause it's got to offload gas and, or charges and food to the tissues like your leg, and then it gets going again. So think about that. You got a water moving fast, same speed, slows down, stops, gets going again.

[00:32:18] Dr. Tom Cowan: Where do you put the pump? 

[00:32:22] Christa Biegler, RD: I don't know. 

[00:32:23] Dr. Tom Cowan: Yeah, you do. If you put it where it's stopped. 

[00:32:26] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. It just doesn't make any sense in my head. It doesn't make sense that a pump would be in the foot. So it doesn't, I'm like, I don't. 

[00:32:34] Dr. Tom Cowan: Yeah, but that's where it's got to be because it's stopped and the only sense of a pump, and if the blood isn't moving faster, what did it do to the blood?

[00:32:46] Christa Biegler, RD: If the blood isn't moving faster, what's

[00:32:48] Dr. Tom Cowan: the same speed going in is coming out. What's the sense of having a pump when the moving water coming in to your pump is already going fast.

[00:33:00] Christa Biegler, RD: Are you saying the blood doesn't slow down? 

[00:33:04] Dr. Tom Cowan: It slows down when it stops at the Kepler. I tell people it's like you have a bus from San Francisco to New York and it stops in St.

[00:33:13] Dr. Tom Cowan: Louis. And I'm not getting on the bus unless the bus has an engine in St. Louis, because I'm stuck in St. Louis. You got to put the engine in the bus at St. Louis, even if it's down the hill, because if it's going to keep going and it stopped to offload passengers and luggage and stuff, you got to get going again.

[00:33:34] Dr. Tom Cowan: You got to put the pump at your foot and your liver and your leg, et cetera. So what's the pump. But here's another thing. When you look at the aortic arch. So you, this is visual, right? You can see me, so you got this artery coming out of the heart like a, like McDonald's arch, right? Like this.

[00:33:56] Dr. Tom Cowan: So imagine you have a spigot off your home, off your house, and you have a garden hose. That's an arch. You turn the hose, the spigot off. The whole, the arch is, it's an arch. Then you turn it on full blast, right? Cause you're gonna, you have to pump this blood, the length of the artery of the blood circulate, the blood vessels.

[00:34:20] Dr. Tom Cowan: It's like tens of thousands of miles if you laid them end to end. So that's a hell of a pump. You got to push really hard. So you turn the spigot on really hard and you got this flexible garden hose like this. What's it going to do? 

[00:34:34] Christa Biegler, RD: Get kinked. 

[00:34:36] Dr. Tom Cowan: Straighten. 

[00:34:37] Christa Biegler, RD: Straighten. Okay. 

[00:34:38] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:34:39] Dr. Tom Cowan: So no, no flow.

[00:34:41] Dr. Tom Cowan: It goes like this. Turn it on really fast. It goes like that. And if you don't believe me, take a guard nose and see what happens. Okay. So you got the aortic arch. Push really hard. Cause you got to go 10, 000 miles. And what happens? It goes in. That's goofy. 

[00:34:58] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. 

[00:34:59] Dr. Tom Cowan: And when I was in college, I worked in a cardiac cath lab and you'd squirt the dye and you'd see it come out every time there was systole that the aortic arch would compress in.

[00:35:10] Dr. Tom Cowan: You can see it. And I said, that doesn't make any sense. Because if you push really, oh, you got 10, 000 pounds of pressure going through there because you got to go all the way around. You have to go all the way around the body. You have to get it to stop. And then the same push has to get it going again.

[00:35:30] Dr. Tom Cowan: That's not 

[00:35:31] Dr. Tom Cowan: possible. 

[00:35:32] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. So I'm still trying to understand what the pump is in the foot. Okay. I'll tell you in my brain. 

[00:35:37] Dr. Tom Cowan: I will. So it goes like this and they said, Oh, that's just the way it does. I said, I know that's the way it does. I can see it. That means it's a suction, not a push.

[00:35:49] Dr. Tom Cowan: Okay, so what's the pump? If you take a beaker of water, Jerry Pollack did this experiment, you suspend a horizontal hydrophilic tube in it. Okay, you with me? By threads or wires. And so there's water in the beaker, the tube, the hydrophilic tube, it will form a gel layer inside the tube, just the interaction of water with hydrophilic charged proteins.

[00:36:23] Dr. Tom Cowan: It always does that mean it's a gel layer like jello. So that's the so called fourth phase of water. It's not ice. It's not liquid. It's not steam. It's jello. Which phase is that? It's not any of those three. And you can see it. And that gel layer is always negatively charged. which means it pushes the positive charges into the liquid water in the center of the two.

[00:36:51] Dr. Tom Cowan: You with me to gel layer lining the two liquid water in the center. That's like a capillary hydrophilic to interacting with the liquid in the blood, forming a gel layer that protects it. And then the blood is liquid. So that has these positive charges in it. The positive charges repel each other, start the blood moving, and that movement, that repulsion, electromagnetic charge repulsion gets the blood moving. And then because the tubes go from tiny to bigger, they compress the surface area, like a river going from a wetland to a river. And that makes it go faster and faster. It's simple. 

[00:37:43] Christa Biegler, RD: It's electrical.

[00:37:45] Dr. Tom Cowan: It's simple Bernoulli's principle of how water moves in tubes.

[00:37:50] Dr. Tom Cowan: So you compress the total volume, and that makes the blood go faster. So the pump is the charge that's created because of tubes interacting with water. Now here's the beauty of that way of thinking. You can say, so you can measure the velocity of the water moving in the tube, and that tells you the.

[00:38:18] Dr. Tom Cowan: Intensity or the strength of the gel, right? Bigger gel, more charge, faster velocity. Okay? 

[00:38:28] Christa Biegler, RD: Yes. 

[00:38:29] Dr. Tom Cowan: So you put the beaker in a lead box, stops moving. You put the beaker in the sun, starts moving fast. You put the beaker on the earth, starts moving fast. You put your hands on it, like laying on of hands, there's an electromagnetic charge from the palm of our hands, gets the blood, the water to move faster.

[00:38:56] Dr. Tom Cowan: You put your dog next to it, at least most dogs, starts moving faster. 

[00:39:01] Christa Biegler, RD: .Yeah, 

[00:39:02] Dr. Tom Cowan: here's how you get it to stop. Put your cell phone next to the beaker. Stop moving. Why? Because you've ruined, you've interfered with the ability of that gel to form because the charge from the radiation device called your cell phone interfered with that.

[00:39:25] Dr. Tom Cowan: The gel can't form. No movement. Why do you get congestive heart failure? That means the blood can't move up your body. That's because you're ruined your charge. No sun, no earth, no physical touch, stupid thoughts. And you spend all your time with your cell phone. 

[00:39:49] Christa Biegler, RD: That makes more sense. And it makes me all I can come up with just more and more questions, which to be continued on structured water conversation, because I think it might make sense with you explaining it, but it makes me think about what we know, or the claim around a diabetic neuropathy and damage to.

[00:40:13] Christa Biegler, RD: Vessels and I might just be getting to downstream again makes me think about that and the. And, I don't know, just thinking about how that plays 

[00:40:23] Christa Biegler, RD: out. 

[00:40:23] Dr. Tom Cowan: Diabetics have essentially, here's another interesting thing. They say heart attacks are from a blockage in your major coronary arteries.

[00:40:33] Dr. Tom Cowan: We already went through that. Diabetics don't have disease of the big blood vessels. They have disease of the capillaries. 

[00:40:40] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. 

[00:40:40] Dr. Tom Cowan: They have more heart attacks. Why? They don't have more plaque. 

[00:40:45] Christa Biegler, RD: Oh, 

[00:40:46] Christa Biegler, RD: because they have damaged 

[00:40:48] Christa Biegler, RD: capillaries. 

[00:40:48] Dr. Tom Cowan: The capillaries are where the flow happens. So then it, then the world starts making sense.

[00:40:56] Dr. Tom Cowan: You got no flow. You have a damage. You, that's the cause of your heart starving for energy, for fuel. And by the way, the reason they have neuropathy. is, nerves don't have synapses. They say they do. They don't work by neurotransmitters. They say they do, but they don't. And it's easy to show that you can't possibly have a synapse in a nerve.

[00:41:25] Dr. Tom Cowan: Even though that is neurology 101 a nerve. It's the reason I know that is too fast, right? If you say, how long does it take for between when I say wiggle your finger when you hear it and wiggle it, it's instant, right? If you think about impulse, crossing the synapse, next nerve, cross the synapse, release the chemicals, that can't possibly be instantaneous.

[00:41:59] Dr. Tom Cowan: And you will never see an actual picture of a synapse because they don't exist. The way they get synapse, the idea was they dehydrate nerves, they break apart, and they say that's a synapse. So if you know that a nerve is just structured water, which has a charge, you can see this charges flow instantaneous, right?

[00:42:23] Dr. Tom Cowan: That's why you flip your switch on down the hall. It goes immediately. And if you ruin the charge, because that's your disease. Then you got neuropathy,

[00:42:34] Dr. Tom Cowan: the world starts to make sense, 

[00:42:36] Christa Biegler, RD: right? 

[00:42:36] Christa Biegler, RD: I know I'm actually just thinking in my brain if I 

[00:42:40] Dr. Tom Cowan: didn't know it's your brain 

[00:42:41] Christa Biegler, RD: if you yeah I was wondering if you find yourself frustrated a lot by everything, you know is upside down And then what you do with this information Let's talk about 

[00:42:55] Dr. Tom Cowan: I think it's mostly funny 

[00:42:57] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah, 

[00:42:57] Christa Biegler, RD: mostly funny.

[00:42:58] Christa Biegler, RD: That works. That works for me, too. 

[00:43:00] Christa Biegler, RD: So I'd love to talk more about structured water, which I'm running low on time today. I would love to hear about, I think you've talked about this, but let's summarize. When you think about answers for heart conditions or life, the condition of life or disease, what are the solutions that you think about?

[00:43:21] Christa Biegler, RD: You brought up 

[00:43:23] Dr. Tom Cowan: Get in the sun throw your cell phone in the nearest forest or river, although that's not so good for the forest or river. Get your feet on the earth, move, eat good food, have good relations. And if you've got any traumas in your life or emotional blockages, investigate what happened and see if you can do something about it.

[00:43:46] Christa Biegler, RD: I want to ask you this last question. I don't know if this is going to open a can of worms, but I like to think about this topic about emotion stored in the body. And have you spent a lot of time on this topic? 

[00:43:58] Dr. Tom Cowan: Yes. 

[00:43:59] Christa Biegler, RD: Yeah. Okay, cool. Another topic for another day. Thank you so much for coming on today.

[00:44:04] Christa Biegler, RD: I feel like we barely got started. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about yourself? 

[00:44:10] Dr. Tom Cowan: Mostly drtomcowan. com. D R T O M C O W A N dot com. 

[00:44:19] Christa Biegler, RD: Perfect. Thanks so much for walking us slowly through debunking the concept of heart things. And I hope you come back and talk about structured water and emotions stored in the body another day.

[00:44:31] Dr. Tom Cowan: All right. Take care.

[00:44:33] Christa Biegler, RD: Just keep breaking. Gotta get myself.